Hello WNVM-ers,
Let’s just get right to it!
First, Fawnia talks to actor, podcaster, and producer extraordinaire Paul Scheer, who recently released his moving memoir, Joyful Recollections of Trauma. (He’s also on Substack at “3 Things.”) She may have fangirled out a bit.
Then, Cheryl gets up close and personal with the latest version of tween brand Limited Too. She has some thoughts about the long-term viability of this nostalgia-soaked relaunch.
We’d love for you to send us #content of your Gen X-related adventures, and we’ll share on Instagram. Plus, stick around for updates that You Oughta Know at the very end.
You Take the Good, You Take the Bad
‘Joyful Recollections of Trauma’ author Paul Scheer on influential ‘80s TV, Madonna, and, yes, the Brat Pack
By Fawnia
When I first moved to New York City at the turn of the century, I had no job, a shitty apartment, and unexpected roommates (of the rodent variety, blech). But, I did have my TV. And when I wasn’t out living my “Friends”-style dreams (we totally had a Joey), I’d be watching VH1’s “I Love the ‘80s.” Paul Scheer made me snort-laugh with his witty quips and deep-cut throwbacks that felt so specific to me. It was an exhilarating but scary time, so I appreciated feeling comforted through familiar nostalgia that only television, in the pre-streaming-era, could provide.
I realize I may also sound a tad delusional stalker-y, too, but I feel like Scheer has been a constant in my life, making me laugh on-screen (and through my Airpods) since. His comedy, acting, and producing resumé is stacked, from his Y2K Upright Citizens Brigade days to “Veep” to 1987-set “Black Monday.” He’s also graced my more recent favorites, like “Fresh Off the Boat,” as Randall Park’s crouton-stealing steakhouse host, Mitch, and an afterlife bureaucrat in “The Good Place.” (I do love a Mike Schur joint.)
Of course, there's Scheer’s long-running OG podcast, “How Did This Get Made,” my preferred companion on road trips, delayed F train rides, and long flights. (Yes, I’m that person sitting alone, mostly in silence, while erratically choke-cackling.) Alongside his wife and perfect banter partner, June Diane Raphael, and friend/frequent co-star, Jason Mantzoukas, Scheer breaks down so-endearingly-bad-they’re-excellent movies, like my highlights, the Fast & Furious franchise and Lake Placid (for culture writer @frazbelina and me, that yellow legal pad is the gift that keeps on giving — #iykyk.)
On the pod, improv pro Scheer would often share engaging, if not at times distressing stories from his childhood. Responses and encouragement from his co-hosts and a revealing guest spot on “WTF with Marc Maron” in 2010 inspired Scheer to pen his memoir, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, released in May.
I don’t usually do audiobooks, but I felt like hearing his storytelling would feel even more impactful. And, honestly, I could listen to Scheer’s dramatic readings of Amazon movie reviews until my end of days. (“FIVE STARS.”) “I'm a big audiobook fan,” says Scheer, over Zoom. “So, I really wanted to make it a really worthwhile audiobook.” Plus, there are extras, like “HDTGM” clips of his childhood anecdotes to be fully explored in the memoir.
Scheer’s collection of essays embarks on a heart wrenching but ultimately heartwarming and revelatory journey through his challenging, to say the least, childhood and paths of self-discovery. Oftentimes, his close connections with television shows and characters of his youth support and uplift him through the trauma. (The early-’80s, pre-CGI “The Incredible Hulk” transformation serves as an evocative analogy for abuse, rage, and self-realization.)
Ahead, Scheer shares just how committed he was to TV as a child of the ‘80s, why he encourages his sons to watch lots of movies, what critique he has for “Mom-donna,” and which Brat Pack movie “HDTGM” should cover.
What are your early memories of realizing that TV characters resonated with you so strongly?
I was a latchkey kid, which is something that is such a foreign concept, especially as I get older. I don't really talk to many kids who just come home after school and there are no parents home. For me, my parent — or that time of supervision — was often coming home and watching TV, and it wasn't just cartoons. It was these syndicated network reruns, like ‘Diff’rent Strokes,’ ‘Happy Days’ and ‘Facts of Life.’ Every day, I knew I had that lineup, and when you were sick, you could watch ‘Gilligan's Island’ and ‘I Love Lucy.’ The shows that were always on, and it wasn't like it wasn't like, ‘Oh, I have to wait another week for them.’
Are there other characters or shows, not mentioned in your book, that helped shape who you are today or had a strong influence on you?
[Jason Bateman’s sitcom] ‘It's Your Move,’ ‘Diff’rent Strokes,’ ‘Silver Spoons,’ the 1960s ‘Batman,’ with Adam West and Burt Ward … I don't know if these things shaped me as much as they started to just give me a love of these stories and these characters. There are some kids who are incredibly into sports and some kids who are incredibly into movies, and I was into TV. Although, I love Back to the Future.
It’s not a TV show, but every August there was this issue of TV Guide called the Fall Preview and it was this big. It was more glossy than your regular TV Guide and the first 25, 30 pages were a cast picture and a description of what the new shows were. I remember waiting for and being so excited to get that. I would sit with my TV Guide every week and circle what I wanted to see. So for me, it wasn't necessarily one show, as much as the combination of all of them.
You mention in your book that you went to New York University to study education because Theo Huxtable (Malcolm Jamal-Warner) did on ‘The Cosby Show.’
100%. The only reason I went to NYU is that Theo went there. I was such a huge ‘The Cosby Show’ fan. I know it's tricky to talk about now because of everything around Bill Cosby, but that show was so influential to me. I think on some level there is a connection for me in that [the show] felt different. We talk about it a lot right now, like there's a really healthy rebellion against [only depicting] the same type of family: very white, middle class. So I think that was exciting for me to see ‘The Cosby Show.’ It felt more alive. It just felt cooler and more interesting to me as a kid. I think that's another reason I gravitated towards it.
You also mentioned ‘A Different World,’ the Lisa Bonet-led HBCU-set spin-off, in your memoir. I remember feeling excited and inspired by that show for new experiences later in college. I wonder if kids still have that same sort of close relationship with TV now, with social media, the Internet, and streaming.
I have a seven-year-old and a 10-year-old and I realized that coming home and watching TV, going to movies, being excited to get to go to a movie — that was a big deal. All these things are stories that we're getting fed to us, regardless of how good or bad they are, they are teaching us empathy. [They’re like a] vessel to empathy, like, ‘this how other people are’ and ‘this is what it feels like when you're picked on.’ ‘This is what it feels like when you're an outcast.’ ‘This is what happens when someone dies,’ like ET dying. There's something really beautiful about teaching kids that. It’s like a gateway into empathy.
So what are they watching and enjoying?
I've noticed with my kids, they're not as excited to go see movies. But as they're getting older, we're really working to get them to watch — and want — to see more movies, and it doesn't always work. We’ve got to find the right balance, so I really do listen to my kids. If they don't like something, and we're like 20 minutes into it, I'm like, ‘alright, well, we'll try something different.’ My 10-year-old is loving all the Creed movies and he's feeling certain ways about it, and that’s great. We're gonna lean into that. My other son loves comedy, so he just watched [Eddie Murphy’s 1996 movie] The Nutty Professor this weekend and was crazy laughing and [1986 John Cusak and Demi Moore-starring rom-com] One Crazy Summer. I [encourage them] to find what they both enjoy and go to it, not necessarily what I enjoy. I mean, I enjoy both of those things.
I do think that it's a harder muscle to massage because, when I was a kid, the only option for entertainment was TV and movies. Now they can watch five-minute-long videos on how to kick a soccer ball a certain way or [YouTuber] MrBeast. It's like I'm going to put $1,000 into a house and blow it up in five minutes versus ‘oh yeah, you have to spend 90 minutes with these characters and hopefully you get something equally fulfilling out of it.’
So what about ‘80s and ‘90s music — do you have the same connection to music, or more TV and movies?
I grew up in the time of Madonna. I talked about it in the book, but also Weird Al [Yankovic.] I definitely was more into the pop side of it, like Tiffany, too.
Did you go see Madonna in concert on ‘The Celebration’ tour?
I saw her in LA at the [KIA] Forum and it was an amazing show. My only critique is it just felt a little disjointed in parts. I can sit here and critique it, but I loved every song that she played. But it just felt like: Do a concert or do a [career retrospective] show, and it felt like a middle ground. I can see Madonna being very adamant about what she wanted, and there's a fun energy. I could watch her just yell at us. She yelled at the audience a lot about how we don't know what's going on. ‘Put down your phones.’ In her day, ‘this is how we did it.’ I called it the ‘Mom-donna show.’ She was definitely yelling at us a lot. But I loved it. [Note: Cheryl saw Mom-donna in Chicago, and confirms a similar experience via text, ‘Yes, she yelled a ton! And spit beer into the audience.”]
This is great. I feel like I'm getting my own little ‘How Did This Get Made.’ I need to ask, because there was a side discussion on Substack Notes during the Andrew McCarthy Brats discourse. Why did ‘HDTGM’ do Mannequin 2: On the Move and not the first Mannequin?
The first Mannequin’s good.
OK, that was my response, too.
I haven't seen it in years, but Mannequin one is this amazing fun idea. This mannequin [played by Kim Cattrall] comes to life. [McCarthy’s character] falls in love with her. There's this energy to it that's really special, and then to do a sequel to it. It's so bizarre and you can't recapture that magic.
I feel like you brought up the 1988 Andrew McCarthy and Molly Ringwald reunion bomb, Fresh Horses, in your Brats Substack rebuttal. Could ‘HDTGM’ do that or a Brat Pack movie?
I think if we did any Brat Pack movie, we probably have to do St. Elmo's Fire. I don't think St. Elmo's Fire is good. I think it's culturally interesting. But Fresh Horses to me is not a movie that I would want to make fun of because it's artistically trying to do something. It's not a failure. There are a lot of bad movies, and [being] bad movies doesn't mean that they're actually fun to talk about. We [and producer Avril Halley] really try to pick bad movies that are fun to watch and fun to talk about. It's funny because the Brat Pack thing has brought up St. Elmo's Fire — people are mad at it. They're like, ‘fuck this movie.’ It's so funny. I've read so many reviews of people going, ‘I wouldn't watch it. It's not good.’
The above interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Hit Me Baby One More Time
Limited Too is back — back again — to capitalize on Millennials’ nostalgia
By Cheryl
Limited Too is not the part of the Limited cinematic universe for which I have nostalgia. But I’ve been interested in Les Wexner’s empire1 and its many offshoots since I was a young teen pining for a Forenza shaker knit sweater (perhaps you were an Outback Red girlie instead?) and continuing through my professional life as a journalist covering Victoria’s Secret and Bath & Body Works.
Analyzing reheated nostalgia is what we do here, so I was excited to attend a press launch event in NYC for Limited Too in late June. The tween brand has planned its splashy relaunch just in time for some of its original core customers to become moms with tweens of their own. While it may seem like great strategic timing, this is actually a re-relaunch. Or maybe even a re-re-relaunch.
The path from ubiquitous tween mall favorite to the present is winding and confusing. In short: Wexner’s L Brands launched Limited Too in 1987. It passed through different corporate entities over the years and shut completely in 2008-ish. Some stores were converted to the less expensive Justice, a sister brand. Limited Too sat dormant, like a dusty pile of NSYNC CDs forgotten in someone’s basement. But along the way, the brand forged deep nostalgia in a generation of girls who now fondly remember its butterfly clips and the delight in receiving Too Bucks.
Bluestar Alliance, which also owns brands like bebe, Hurley, and Brookstone, acquired the trademarks of the brand in 2015. In 2017, Limited Too hosted a pop-up store in NYC, and merchandise has been kicking around in the back alleys of Amazon and Walmart in some form for several years. The Limited Too storefront is still live on Amazon, though a lot of the merchandise is no longer available. I also found Limited Too-branded products, like a unicorn backpack and a pack of “training bras,” on Walmart.com’s marketplace. But this is a new, bigger attempt to bring it back.
“The brand has this huge cult following and it just has this love that we’re seeing all over our socials,” Elizabeth McCusker, the VP of marketing at Bluestar, told me at the launch party. She said the team had been working for over a year on the relaunch. They started posting on Instagram again in early June. The brand now has 48,000 followers, many of whom are clamoring for merch in adult sizes.
The first collection, made for tweens, will be sold initially at Kohl’s starting July 25 (that date was pushed back from July 12), but a rep told WWD that it is speaking to mall operators about brick and mortar locations. The relaunch features an 86-piece collection that will include accessory and apparel categories like “Cozy,” “Lounge,” and “Heritage,” which is an homage to some of the design elements of the brand when it launched, like appliques and half-zip sweatshirts. A member of the original Limited Too design team is even working with the brand again. There are Clueless-esque plaid dresses and skirts, plenty of rhinestones, and a varsity vibe to many items.
And it seems like those people who want to remember what it was like shopping when they were fifth graders may get their wish.
“We are looking at [doing] a Millennial collection, just knowing that there’s been so much chatter about bringing this back for the Millennials who love the brand so much. But [we] really wanted to celebrate all the wonderful things that it means about being a tween and bringing a brand back that celebrates tweens as well,” says McCosker. (When I followed up with the brand for more clarity, a rep wrote, “The team cannot confirm any adult sizing or adult line in the future. They are keeping an extended size range top priority - though it would all live in the junior section.”)
At the event, adult-sized black quilted bomber jackets were available for attendees, including the option to get your name embroidered on one. I declined, but sent a picture to my friend who had shopped at Limited Too and later worked there. She wanted the jacket. “I was also est. 1987,” she texted me. My 30-year-old niece wanted one, too. She informed me that the hosts of the Giggly Squad podcast didn’t think the brand launch would go well if only aimed at kids because “they don’t get the nostalgia and the greatness of this.”
Like the Giggly Squad, I’m also a little skeptical that Gen Alpha is going to take to this brand just because their moms are into it. In fact, that could be a liability. It’s hard to make tweens wear what you think they should. I once tried to get my then-12-year-old son to wear cargo pants I bought. The look of pure scorn that came over his still-cherubic face chilled me, as he slowly slid on the preferred Adidas track pants of his cohort. (He’s now a college student and wears Big Pants, including, ironically, cargos.)
Still, it will be interesting to see if they can make a Limited Too relaunch stick this time. The clothes are cute and well-priced, and I’m all for keeping girls out of Brandy Melville for as long as possible.
To bring this back around to Gen X, it all got me thinking about The Limited for grown-ups and its ultimate fate. After a similar journey through the hands of several owners and ultimately disappearing from malls, The Limited is now an in-house brand at Belk, a chain of department stores in the South. It mostly sells practical and — let’s be honest — dowdy workwear.
I didn’t see a single shaker sweater.
Les Wexner and his problems are well beyond the scope of this article. But these two timelines really help understand the company and its trajectory.
You Oughta Know
A heated discourse over Michael Mann’s 2006 Miami Vice overtook Twitter or X or whatever, leading to special showings at IFC this weekend. Psst “HDTGM:” Please do this movie next, also because Fawnia is a fiend for mojitos. [Kotaku.com]
Substacker Christina Loff pairs ‘80s and ‘90s on-screen icons with their signatures scents of today. Speaking of “Facts of Life,” mechanic Jo would definitely gravitate toward rugged mossy and musky notes. [Dry Down Diaries]
Kenny Loggins (fun fact: he follows Cheryl on Twitter/X) interviews famous person, Kevin Bacon, about pickleball and Fleetwood Mac. [Interview]
If you loved Pamela Anderson’s documentary and memoir like we did, you can now read her musings in her new Substack newsletter. Style note: she embraces the Gen X ellipsis. [The Open Journal]
Podcast news: Original cast members Daphne Zuniga, Courtney Thorne-Smith, and Laura Leighton are doing a “Melrose Place” rewatch podcast called “Still the Place.” And the latest episode of excellent movie pod “What Went Wrong” features a deep dive into Point Break. Thank you, Kathryn Bigelow, for insisting on casting Keanu Reeves against the studio’s wishes. [wherever you get your podcasts]
Paul Scheer and Limited Too in one newsletter! Heaven!